Copyninja Street FD - GT3 Build

[rx_dreamer]

Stop it with M3 updates! Bringing back too many fond memories

 

[Mir]

These are by far the best injectors. Hence I bought 4 x 1500cc Asnu injectors for my 13b build. I will share my experience with data once the car is up and running. From my experience, I believe Haltec is one of the few ecus that offer table to control minute pulsation of the injectors. I am not sure if Link provides that service - bigger injectors would normally require this function...

Cheers
Mir.

 

[Copyninja]

These are by far the best injectors. Hence I bought 4 x 1500cc Asnu injectors for my 13b build. I will share my experience with data once the car is up and running. From my experience, I believe Haltec is one of the few ecus that offer table to control minute pulsation of the injectors. I am not sure if Link provides that service - bigger injectors would normally require this function...

Cheers
Mir.

Nice, looking forward to your results. What's the build plans for your 13b?

Yup got the pulse control for all injectors, dead time and secondary staging. Most modern ecu's should have something to this effect for exceptional control of the injectors.

 

[Mir]

It's

Nice, looking forward to your results. What's the build plans for your 13b?

Yup got the pulse control for all injectors, dead time and secondary staging. Most modern ecu's should have something to this effect for exceptional control of the injectors.

Its a half Bridge built/ported by Rotor Torque. The engine is balanced and rotors are lightened and had side clearance done to them by GarageReg.

Depends on Rotor Torque really, but hoping for 2 Bar plus - jaydee is a mapper so I know, I am in safe hands.

Re: injector staging and dead times sometimes are not numbered right and most of the mappers play with the numbers when on dyno. Even I have all the dead times from Asnu, I am sure we will play with the dead times to see the optimum point of pulsation.

With the rotaries TDC needs to be spot on for the right injection staging - hence haltec is the way to go! BTW I am using link ecu but will switch to Haltec in future.
As beyteck says: the compression fluctuations will disturb the EGTs. This further reinstates that how important it is to have injector staging spot on as the injectors are the only protection against high EGTs.

It will be a track car.

Thanks
Mir

 

[Copyninja]

It's
Its a half Bridge built/ported by Rotor Torque. The engine is balanced and rotors are lightened and had side clearance done to them by GarageReg.

Depends on Rotor Torque really, but hoping for 2 Bar plus - jaydee is a mapper so I know, I am in safe hands.

Re: injector staging and dead times sometimes are not numbered right and most of the mappers play with the numbers when on dyno. Even I have all the dead times from Asnu, I am sure we will play with the dead times to see the optimum point of pulsation.

With the rotaries TDC needs to be spot on for the right injection staging - hence haltec is the way to go! BTW I am using link ecu but will switch to Haltec in future.
As beyteck says: the compression fluctuations will disturb the EGTs. This further reinstates that how important it is to have injector staging spot on as the injectors are the only protection against high EGTs.

It will be a track car.

Thanks
Mir

I'm sure it will be a phenomenal track car. What turbo are you thinking of using for 2bar boost and what kind of power figures are you chasing?

I agree that injector staging is crucial. I'm missing Emap and Egt data so cant really comment on what it looks like on the other side (on mine) but I have done over 200+ 100-200 kph pulls and the engine's still running sweet so can only consider this as a non issue on my setup.

Completely agree, if you're not satisfied with the link...makes sense to move to a platform, which works best on your application.

Gav's doing some insane things with his build and fair play...he's got amazing real world performance.

Keep us updated on your progress. Seems like a superb build in the making!

 

[Mir]

I'm sure it will be a phenomenal track car. What turbo are you thinking of using for 2bar boost and what kind of power figures are you chasing?

I agree that injector staging is crucial. I'm missing Emap and Egt data so cant really comment on what it looks like on the other side (on mine) but I have done over 200+ 100-200 kph pulls and the engine's still running sweet so can only consider this as a non issue on my setup.

Completely agree, if you're not satisfied with the link...makes sense to move to a platform, which works best on your application.

Gav's doing some insane things with his build and fair play...he's got amazing real world performance.

Keep us updated on your progress. Seems like a superb build in the making!

I am trying to build something nicer -actually more nicer than my 20b FD. The turbo is 76mil BG SXE with bigger rear housing/exducer. What jaydee knew, Rob Dahm has recently proved with his RND in his latested video. I have a best team of Rotor Torque working on the car so, the figures could be anywhere from 500plus WHP.

I like your adventure of mapping which is awesome. Keep it up.

Re: EGT, I agree with Gav big time - man talks alot of sense. But I don't want Jaydee to do anything in terms of *guestimation*... it would be unfair. The EGTs will give him real life data which is crucial and he can then individually map the rotors to compensate for heat...

I don't think Jaydee really needs EGT data to map due to his experience, however, I agree with you, if you know what you are doing then EGT is not really that important.

Will keep you posted. Build pictures are on my Instagram.

Cheers
Mir.

 

[marco]

By staging do you mean injection angle?

 

[Copyninja]

I am trying to build something nicer -actually more nicer than my 20b FD. The turbo is 76mil BG SXE with bigger rear housing/exducer. What jaydee knew, Rob Dahm has recently proved with his RND in his latested video. I have a best team of Rotor Torque working on the car so, the figures could be anywhere from 500plus WHP.

I like your adventure of mapping which is awesome. Keep it up.

Re: EGT, I agree with Gav big time - man talks alot of sense. But I don't want Jaydee to do anything in terms of *guestimation*... it would be unfair. The EGTs will give him real life data which is crucial and he can then individually map the rotors to compensate for heat...

I don't think Jaydee really needs EGT data to map due to his experience, however, I agree with you, if you know what you are doing then EGT is not really that important.

Will keep you posted. Build pictures are on my Instagram.

Cheers
Mir.

Interesting, never thought I'd hear a 13b would be nicer than a 20b. Fair and looks like a great 13b build in the making!

Thanks, mapping the RX7 has been a learning process, but it has added another level of engagement to the overall driving experience. It can be challenging at times to figure out what works best, which is why I've been conducting dragy testing to determine what actually performs well in real-world conditions. I haven't visited a dyno in years, but it's been an exciting journey so far.

Nice look forward to see more of your build.

 

[Copyninja]

By staging do you mean injection angle?

is that a question for me?

 

[Copyninja]

Stop it with M3 updates! Bringing back too many fond memories

I know the feeling. I sold my first one...and felt like....hmmm...maybe just maybe....i messed up! Its such a grown up sports car in comparison to the FD.

What was yours like?

I am soo tempted to do a clubsport build on mine !!

 

[marco]

is that a question for me?

Sorta! More a case I was reading through an it sounded like discussion about when the secondary injectors kick in, but then talk about egt had me wondering if it was injection angle- I guess the follow on question is whether it should be timed for port open or shut and what kind of value is a decent baseline?

 

[Copyninja]

Sorta! More a case I was reading through an it sounded like discussion about when the secondary injectors kick in, but then talk about egt had me wondering if it was injection angle- I guess the follow on question is whether it should be timed for port open or shut and what kind of value is a decent baseline?

Makes sense to start with the OEM base line values for the given ECU and start tweaking from there imo or whatever you or the tuner feels is reasonable. For e.g. Haltech suggestion is 270 - 330 degrees. Other ECU's will start at 0 degrees. I can imagine this topic can be as complicated or as simple as one wants to make it!

I prefer to keep it very simple, while I'm tuning on the road (haven't been to a dyno in years) it’s quite easy to tell if the injection angle is incorrect up top by looking at your horsepower curve (if on a dyno) or dragy 100-200 kph numbers (slower means less optimised if you are specifically testing for this). On a dyno the curve should reach peak horsepower and stay close to this until redline; if it looks like the power curve rolls over and loses a noticeable amount of power near redline, your injection angle will need to be advanced or retarded, depending on the AFR/ Tuner input etc...looking at all data and make an informed choice!

Some additional factors that can affect the optimal injection angle for a ported 13B engine:

• The type of intake manifold
• The size of the injectors
• The boost pressure

You have to consider all of these factors and tweak to find the optimal injection angle for your ported 13B engine.

Another technique I use is to adjust the injection timing window to get the richest AFR result. Once you have that in theory you have the most efficient window period with the least amount of fuel being wasted (going out the exhaust, stalling in the inlet or wasted within chamber boundaries). You can then dial back the fuel to the target AFR .. hopefully the power result will show more for less.

Hope this helps but when I was dragy testing it took me 15mins to get into the most efficient window!

 

[marco]

Yeah all good stuff, I can't remember what I put mine is as when I started to build a map, but I do remember debating quite a bit about it. Once I get the fricking thing running properly I will probably have a play, right now I just need to find time to work on it!

 

[rx_dreamer]

I know the feeling. I sold my first one...and felt like....hmmm...maybe just maybe....i messed up! Its such a grown up sports car in comparison to the FD.

What was yours like?

I am soo tempted to do a clubsport build on mine !!

99% standard, I was getting fed up with projects at the time and decided I needed a car I just put fuel in!

I'm dangerous when it comes to taking things apart!

 

[Copyninja]

Yeah all good stuff, I can't remember what I put mine is as when I started to build a map, but I do remember debating quite a bit about it. Once I get the fricking thing running properly I will probably have a play, right now I just need to find time to work on it!

Glad it was helpful. Which ecu are you running?

Keep it real simple and aim for the richest AFR in each window and you're golden! 0-3krpm, 3-5krpm and 5kpm and above....those are the 3 breakpoints to start with.

 

[Copyninja]

99% standard, I was getting fed up with projects at the time and decided I needed a car I just put fuel in!

I'm dangerous when it comes to taking things apart!

Same, except for the back box for the sound, I'm standard right now! More than enough for B road blasts!

Paaahahaha that made me LOL!

 

[marco]

Glad it was helpful. Which ecu are you running?

Keep it real simple and aim for the richest AFR in each window and you're golden! 0-3krpm, 3-5krpm and 5kpm and above....those are the 3 breakpoints to start with.

Syvecs. It seemed like a good idea at the time....

 

[Copyninja]

Syvecs. It seemed like a good idea at the time....

Oh dear! Never too late cut and run ! I find the user interface (UI) unnecessarily complex and very dated. The UI is based on a Windows XP-era design, with large buttons and text, and a blue and green color scheme. It does not have the same level of polish as the Link G4+/X, Haltech Elite, AEM Infinity, ECU Master, Motec M800.

Ultimately, the best ECU for you will depend on your individual needs and preferences. If you are a beginner and do not have a lot of experience with engine tuning, then drop the Syvecs and change platform without a second thought. You'll be doing yourself a favour. Nevertheless, I'm not suggesting the syvecs wont do the job, it will!

 

[marco]

Tbh the software is ok once you get your head round it, and once you do other manufacturers interfaces just seem overly clunky. It's mainly the total lack of rotary base map that has been a pain. Have had to harvest settings from other manufacturers to build one myself. I have sorta hit the limit of the S6 ECU in a couple of areas but poking round other manufacturers setups makes me realise I would have hit other limits with them. If I were starting from scratch now I might look at buying into the haltech eco system but as it stands it isn't worth it.

 

[Copyninja]

Fair play if you like the platform and it's certainly better than the power fc . I believe Haltech changed philosophies and went from port open to shut and then a bit backwards in their newest base maps for injector timing....I don't really agree with their latest base map to which they mentioned it's up to the tuner to decide, which makes sense to me.

To give you an idea....I left my link G4+ at the base injector timing of 130deg across the entire operating range. When I later optimised it...the power gains were inconsequential, like 0.1s on the dragy 100-200kph if that! You're not magically going to pick up 100hp or 150hp because you've nailed injector timing, pw, staging, dead times and anyone who believes this has likely misunderstood this topic! The reason for nailing or getting in the right ball park is for mpgs, efficiency and less fuel wastage! Low down in cruise and idle areas the engine will feel more responsive and less fumy if that makes sense. For e.g - Think about it for a second, if you're on full boost 20psi -25psi and your injector duty cycle is 85% - 90%. This means your injectors are being held open for nearly the entire cycle! Don't overthink it and go with either OEM numbers or sensible numbers and you cant go far wrong!

Happy to assist where possible with your base tables to get you into a sensible/reasonable place before you start up the car. When I first tuned my rx7....except for a few things....I changed virtually everything on the base map to suit my application. In your case, you have no choice in the matter, because there is no base map!