Next step for improved handling?

[cib24]

I'm looking for more confidence in handling on the road and more confidence in the wet or damp on the track.

I currently have Ohlins DFVs which have 11kg/11kg spring rates, super pro bushes throughout and relatively fresh pillowballs.

My Nankang NS-2Rs need replacement and I am looking to move to the Yokohama AD08R. The only thing putting me off is that the AD08R is rated to be as loud as the Nankang at 72dB and the Nankang tyres annoyed the hell out of me on the motorway.

I'm looking for the next step to improve handling. One thing that I don't like about my setup is it moves around a bit on bumpy surfaces so I never feel like I can commit more than 7/10 to a corner on a public road. Not trying to drive like an idiot or anything but would appreciate a little more stability under braking and on the throttle on the road. On the track it's fine because the surface is smooth.

Next step options in my mind include:

Anti-roll bars
1.5 way diff
Chassis bracing

Or a change of coilovers or alignment.

What are people's opinions of each item?

 

[Nas80]

Personally I'd look at changing the springs to 9/8 rates and see how it feels. It should be within the valving of your ohlins (with a 30% difference?)

It's not too pricey to change springs and not too long a job either.

I do a lot of driving along B roads, and having a softer spring but firmer rebound helps me a lot.

 

[Martin17]

Hi Roy, I've just swapped my coilovers to pcr with stiffer roll bars and it feels more stable and forgiving on the road with less roll compared to the hsd set up with stock roll bars.

 

[cib24]

Hi Roy, I've just swapped my coilovers to pcr with stiffer roll bars and it feels more stable and forgiving on the road with less roll compared to the hsd set up with stock roll bars.

Haven't hear of PCR. Do you have a link?

Which roll bars did you upgrade to?

 

[cib24]

Personally I'd look at changing the springs to 9/8 rates and see how it feels. It should be within the valving of your ohlins (with a 30% difference?)

It's not too pricey to change springs and not too long a job either.

I do a lot of driving along B roads, and having a softer spring but firmer rebound helps me a lot.

Yeah, I have thought about this but not sure if it's possible to adjust the spring rates with the existing Ohlins at a decent price, or if it makes sense to swap to Teins, HSD, etc.

I don't enjoy the Online at low speed given the stuff spring rate but they are nice on the motorway or a-roads when driving normally, and they are stuff enough on the track that I don't have any real complaints. I just wonder if they are the culprit for road driving or if it's my alignment or something else.

This is my current alignment. Perhaps it's too aggressive for the road?

 

[MILLION]

I got a few sets of spring when i bought my Teins. 8's, 9's, 10's, 11's, 12's

Currently using 9 Front 8 Rear. I really like it for the road.

Springs are cheap enough and readily available

Have you read Howard Colemans write up on FD chassis set up? It's a good read

 

[MILLION]

Not exactly Coleman's specs but this feels pretty planted.

FYI i don't think FD's will ever feel super confidence inspiring in the wet or damp

 

[jdmr_neil]

Squirming under braking is the ns2r tyres, they are awful for it. That was the worst thing about those tyres imo.

Public roads are always a bit unpredictable due to the white lines, pot holes, repairs, cambers, drains etc.

 

[Ceylon]

If you want confidence inspiring wet performance, fit a big wing and a proper diffuser like the garage kagotani one, really does make all the difference. I'd focus on aero. But then that is going away from the road car look you've currently got going on.

Softer spring rates will make the car easier to handle on the edge, especially for the rear. Suspension wise I'm pretty much identical to you with Ohlins DFV's, super pro poly bushes and oem ARBs. I find the Ohlins great in the dry and easy to feel where the limit of grip is. I haven't really tried to push the car much in the wet as the AD08R's I've currently got fitted are so shocking in the wet until warmed up, I doubt I'd buy them again.

 

[jdmr_neil]

All of the semi track tyres are pretty poor in the wet tbh. If its road use and the chance of rain you can only look at mps4 or 2s. 888s were loads worse in the wet than ado8r ime. I expect ar1s will be worse again but awesome on a dry sunny day.

 

[JoeLanger]

PS4's might be worth a go in your situation Roy, I have them on my daily, great in the wet and have lots of grip.

 

[Ceylon]

All of the semi track tyres are pretty poor in the wet tbh. If its road use and the chance of rain you can only look at mps4 or 2s. 888s were loads worse in the wet than ado8r ime. I expect ar1s will be worse again but awesome on a dry sunny day.

I'll be going back to R1-R's, wish I hadn't tried the AD08's, the R1-R's are sooo much better in every way!

 

[jdmr_neil]

Really!!! They are toyo tyres right? i had t1r on my dc2 and liked them then.

 

[cib24]

If you want confidence inspiring wet performance, fit a big wing and a proper diffuser like the garage kagotani one, really does make all the difference. I'd focus on aero. But then that is going away from the road car look you've currently got going on.

Softer spring rates will make the car easier to handle on the edge, especially for the rear. Suspension wise I'm pretty much identical to you with Ohlins DFV's, super pro poly bushes and oem ARBs. I find the Ohlins great in the dry and easy to feel where the limit of grip is. I haven't really tried to push the car much in the wet as the AD08R's I've currently got fitted are so shocking in the wet until warmed up, I doubt I'd buy them again.

Yeah, big wings and diffusers don't work for me and my car's aesthetic so I'll just have to live with the damp/wet characteristics.

I agree that the handling with the DFVs are great, and I'm not sure they are the culprit, but pressing on when it's a little bumpy isn't so easy and I sometimes find it hard to feel confident in the rear end.

Surprised the AD08Rs aren't so good when cold. I thought they were supposed to be a large step up from the old AD08s.

In 17s Joe, all I can get are the PS4, not the PS4S yet I'm not sure this is too much of a road tyre and will be terrible on even a light track day when they get too hot?

 

[cib24]

PS4's might be worth a go in your situation Roy, I have them on my daily, great in the wet and have lots of grip.

Joe, I have looked into thisore and I think you have a point about choosing a road tyre this time since I only do 2-4 track days per year.

Michelin PS4 looks like a nice tyre comparable to the PSS I used to run on my RX-8. The only thing I didn't like about the Michelin's were the soft sidewalls.

Does anyone have experience with the Pirelli P Zeros?

 

[Martin17]

Haven't hear of PCR. Do you have a link?

Which roll bars did you upgrade to?

Nope I dont believe many was made. I bought them from Matt and was originally from the rapt car. Rear roll bar was made by atomic rex and front is a racing beat

 

[Nas80]

The only thing I didn't like about the Michelin's were the soft sidewalls.

I think this is probably why my car no longer feels half as crashy and vibrations dont seem come through as much.

I don't ever feel im getting tyre roll. I'm on 17s with a decent bit of profile too

 

[Cyman]

First change your tyres before doing anything to rule those out. Then get 4 wheel alignment done to some fast road settings, dial your online in back off the damping fully then drive and see how it feels then turn up until you are happy with the feel and performance, the key to a fast road car is as soft as you can stand to increase the amount of time the contact patch is on the road. You dont need to change the spring rates they are perfectly matched.

Mine is not choppy with the ohlins at all.

 

[4packet]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way your car is setup, assuming suspension is all tight and still aligned as set. I don't think changing roll bars, spring rates or diff will make a positive improvement without being detrimental elsewhere. I've not run the Nankang's, but if they are anything like the Feds (which from reviews I believe they are), they are proper ditch finders until they are warm. On a damp to mildly wet road I can just about keep them warm enough to work OK, but the moment I get caught in traffic, they lose their edge and subsequent traction to overtake is all over the place.

I recently spent the weekend blatting round south Wales (with McLaren 570S & SL55AMG). I was the only one on track tyres and in the early morning wet conditions I had to concentrate extremely hard to keep it together (heart in mouth the whole way), whilst the others seemed far more confident. Once it dried enough for the tyres to warm up it was fine and I could push as hard as the 570 without the fear.

 

[cib24]

You are right Cyman in that I should double check what I have at the moment to make sure there isn't something amiss before adding new components and trying to mask anything. It may well be my tyres as they are pretty worn and heat cycled at this point, and it could be a setting or stray bushing, etc. I'll check the bushes with Rotor Torque, check the alignment again, check the damper settings and replace the tyres.

I'm thinking Michelin PS4 since I'm only doing 2-4 track days per year nowadays so don't need a track day tyre for road driving.