Upgraded anti-roll bars

[Hooskworks]

I had my '99 Type-RS out on the track a couple of weeks ago and it felt alright out there but looking at photos she was going a bit boaty around corners. Currently it's entirely stock from handling point of view apart from 17" CR-Kais all round with 235s up front and 255s in back wrapped around them and some HKS Hipermax D coilovers that're of unknown age, unknown spring rates. They were on it when it go imported and probably for a long time before that.

I've been looking at the CUSCO upgraded anti-roll bars to help with the body roll in corners and had a couple of questions.

• Are upgraded ARBs worth it for road and some track driving on a Type-RS?
• Has anyone tried the CUSCO ones / are they worth it?
• Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely and should just spring for a newer and better set of coilovers whilst keeping the stock ARBs so it doesn't become too sketchy on bumpy public roads?

 

[Ceylon]

Body roll isn't a bad thing in an FD, the suspension doesn't go out of geometry with roll like most cars being double wishbone. It's very hard to recommend anything without knowing your spring rates as it's all a balance. In an ideal world, you should increase your ARB stiffness at a similar % rate as you increase the spring stiffness, assuming you want to keep the cars lateral weight transfer balance the same. I haven't looked, but I imagine the Cusco ones are very stiff, might have the opposite effect on handling to what you're after. I'm not a fan of twitchy cars that give no feedback, much harder to drive on the edge.

Racing beat ARB's are a good rating, not silly stiff like a lot of the JDM ones.

 

[MILLION]

racing beat anti roll bars as a package get a lot of good press.

Three tuners I've spoken to about bars have recommended them too

 

[Ceylon]

They're a good match if you're running ~8-10kg spring rates iirc, been a few years since I last looked into it.

 

[Hooskworks]

Thanks guys. I thought it might be the case with knowing so little about the coil overs but I hadn't considered it not making a huge amount of difference to the geometry with the multi-link double wishbone setup. I'd always operated on the idea I was going to get toe angle change with body roll and might want to limit it.

I'll have to see if the spring have got anything marked on them that's still readable but they feel hard as rocks and you really get shaken about out there on the road which makes me think the shocks might not be in awesome condition even if they're not making any suspect noises. I'm definitely not wanting to move the handling towards being twitchy.

Anecdotally, I'm seeing that they shipped with 10 kg up front and 8 kg in the rear from some googling but I'm not sure I trust those numbers and how people say they ride vs how the ones i've got feel.

 

[Mazdawho]

I’ve had the the racing beat bars fitted for years and there not bad. if you do upgrade you’ll need to fit the front brace that replaces and joins both front arb mounts my flimsy original arb mounts just bent and broke. Got a re amemiya brace and had no trouble since.

 

[Ceylon]

Or any of the aftermarket mounts, it's just the oem ones that are a bit flimsy. The widefoot or Sakebomb ones are particularly good from what I've seen. I had supernow ones on one of my old FD's, they are quite cheap and work.

 

[Hooskworks]

I’ve had the the racing beat bars fitted for years and there not bad. if you do upgrade you’ll need to fit the front brace that replaces and joins both front arb mounts my flimsy original arb mounts just bent and broke. Got a re amemiya brace and had no trouble since.

I've seen the upgraded mounts around and abouts but not the brace for them, have you got a link?

 

[Ceylon]

I've seen the upgraded mounts around and abouts but not the brace for them, have you got a link?

The braces are designed to be used if you retain the standard mounts. Stronger aftermarket mounts are a better, lighter option .

 

[4packet]

I’ve had the the racing beat bars fitted for years and there not bad. if you do upgrade you’ll need to fit the front brace that replaces and joins both front arb mounts my flimsy original arb mounts just bent and broke. Got a re amemiya brace and had no trouble since.

Can I ask what spring rates you were running when the arb mounts failed? I've still got std mounts with Tanabe front and Racing Beat rear ARB and so far I've not seen an issue. The difference might be that I'm running Ohlins with F13 & R11Kg/mm spring rates. My theory being that the force through the ARB is reduced as you increase the coilover spring rate, due to the reduced body roll.

To the OP, I wouldn't worry about what the car looks like and just assess it by how it feels to you. On the road (or wet trackdays) you are probably better with the stock ARB's. For track only use I would go stiffer overall (spring rates) on my car. With stock (93) ARB's the car felt OK, but felt slower to change direction through an S bend for instance. I'd really notice the difference following a Caterham for example, which had no more mechanical grip on a constant radius, but would lose me through a complex.

Worth noting that the Racing Beat front ARB is solid and adds a lot of weight in front of the axle. I limited myself to hollow bars only. Stock are hollow.

 

[MILLION]

i got 8-10kg & 10-12kg option with Tein Flex (height, pre-load and damping adjust)

R.B. bars work well with both spring sets imo

The whole set up is pleasant on the street. I've actually stopped swapping to the 8-10's

 

[cib24]

I have Ohlins DFVs which are 11kg front and rear and stock ARBs. In my opinion this spring rate is on the limit of acceptable ride comfort on the street but it is quite good on the track. No doubt stiffer ARBs and chassis bracing would help out but I can't say I have ever felt a lack of grip or keenness to change direction or control the car in the bends. And that is why I have never swapped out the roll bars.

Put the right alignment on the car and you will smile.

 

[Ceylon]

Can I ask what spring rates you were running when the arb mounts failed? I've still got std mounts with Tanabe front and Racing Beat rear ARB and so far I've not seen an issue.

Isn't your car quite a late model? If so, they changed the mounts for the 1999 facelift to alter the radiator angle. They seem to be a bit stronger.

 

[Hooskworks]

I have Ohlins DFVs which are 11kg front and rear and stock ARBs. In my opinion this spring rate is on the limit of acceptable ride comfort on the street but it is quite good on the track. No doubt stuffer ARBs and chassis bracing would help out but I can't say I have ever felt a lack of grip or keenness to change direction or control the car in the bends. And that is why I have never swapped out the roll bars.

Put the right alignment on the car and you will smile.

I'm starting to think time and money would be better spent splashing out on a set of the Ohlins Road & Track coilovers and ditch these old HKS units judging from what people are saying. My goal is definitely to keep it street friendly but in the spirit of what the car is supposed to be on the track. I'm not expecting it to keep up with track toys or track only builds in a complex and i don't want it getting twitchy on the limit.

 

[Ceylon]

Got to say, I do love mine with the Ohlins DFV's and standard late R type ARB's.

 

[4packet]

Isn't your car quite a late model? If so, they changed the mounts for the 1999 facelift to alter the radiator angle. They seem to be a bit stronger.

Yes, it's a series 8 car imported unofficially by one of the Mazda dealers. Still wears your old blue spoiler as it came with the early one. Possibly the std offering as it used to be an auto.

That's the first time I've heard of those mounts being different on the late cars. I'd prefer to upgrade, as I'm sure they must flex, but my car needs the std ARB position (rather then 20mm shorter) as the rack is lowered.

 

[Ceylon]

Yes, it's a series 8 car imported unofficially by one of the Mazda dealers. Still wears your old blue spoiler as it came with the early one. Possibly the std offering as it used to be an auto.

That's the first time I've heard of those mounts being different on the late cars. I'd prefer to upgrade, as I'm sure they must flex, but my car needs the std ARB position (rather then 20mm shorter) as the rack is lowered.

That's quite a rare option to have that spoiler, I've seen it in the early brochures but not many had it I think! Must be a pretty early s8. Had a quick look, there are two ARB revisions for the S8, the later being in Sept '99. I've got the later ones on mine, they're cranked at an angle compared to the pretty strait early cars.

 

[cib24]

Yes, it's a series 8 car imported unofficially by one of the Mazda dealers. Still wears your old blue spoiler as it came with the early one. Possibly the std offering as it used to be an auto.

That's the first time I've heard of those mounts being different on the late cars. I'd prefer to upgrade, as I'm sure they must flex, but my car needs the std ARB position (rather then 20mm shorter) as the rack is lowered.

The only time they ever bend is when someone runs over something. Otherwise they are perfectly suitable to the job. I have e done like 10 track days in 2 or 3 years and the mounts look the same.

 

[Ceylon]

The only time they ever bend is when someone runs over something. Otherwise they are perfectly suitable to the job. I have e done like 10 track days in 2 or 3 years and the mounts look the same.

I think it's only an issue if you upgrade the ARB's as a stiffer ARB will put more stress on the mounts rather than bending itself.

 

[4packet]

That's quite a rare option to have that spoiler, I've seen it in the early brochures but not many had it I think! Must be a pretty early s8. Had a quick look, there are two ARB revisions for the S8, the later being in Sept '99. I've got the later ones on mine, they're cranked at an angle compared to the pretty strait early cars.

I've never looked at the build date of the car. Registered 17/11/99 (on a V). Think it was TW Whites that imported it.

When you say they are angled, about which axis? Struggling to imagine it.

On a side note, the rear ARB on my car was tiny. Smaller than the post 93 bar. That makes 3 rear bar sizes that I am aware of.