Intercooler Upgrade

[rob fd]

Yes, on the V Mount aspect I simply wonder if the intercooler will work well if you don't have a vented bonnet for the air to escape.

Mine works a absolute treat without a vented bonnet. I highest i have seen is 25c and that was after a during some hard pulls. i sat in traffic for about 15min also and it only got 30c and was back to lower 20s as soon as i was moving again.

 

[cib24]

Mine works a absolute treat without a vented bonnet. I highest i have seen is 25c and that was after a during some hard pulls. i sat in traffic for about 15min also and it only got 30c and was back to lower 20s as soon as i was moving again.

Do you have a pic of the setup and how it is ducted in the bumper opening?

 

[richie2912]

Does the bosch plug need to be wired a certain way or it doesn't matter which way round you wire it up, when going for the Triumph sensor.

 

[jdmr_neil]

You could increase the nozzle size Roy but i don't think that's your problem. To keep it looking oem as possible i think a fmic is your only way. Once you paint it black along with the pipework it won't be oem but it could "look" close.

 

[rob fd]

 

[cib24]

Right, so a V Mount shouldn't heatsoak because the fans on the radiator will draw the heat away and under the car away from the intercooler.

I am wondering if I can reuse my Greddy SMIC core and basically flip it horizontally in the space where my SMIC and airbox are right now, adjust the end tanks as needed, reposition my Koyo radiator, extend the intake pipes along the side of the V Mounted intercooler, block them off and place pod filters on them.

I don't think the core of the intercooler necessarily needs to be larger than the Greddy as it is a decent enough size and sufficient for twins.

Could work?

 

[Ceylon]

Probably would be easier, better looking and more cost effective to source a new core if you want to go v mount I'd think. Also if you're removing the intake box, I'd definitely go for a bigger core.

 

[rob fd]

Go v mount mate its the best thing you will ever do. Im making a extra 140hp and my intake temps are like a 3rd of what they were. sitting at motorway speeds im seeing between 16 - 20c rising to about 23 - 25 under hard boost. Also the car runs cool as ice not even managed to get the fans on yet its sitting about 80c

 

[cib24]

Probably would be easier, better looking and more cost effective to source a new core if you want to go v mount I'd think. Also if you're removing the intake box, I'd definitely go for a bigger core.

Yes, in terms of looks sure. Goal would be to powder coat everything black anyway except the fins. How much would a custom core run as opposed to just modifying the end tanks of the Greddy? Not sure I really need something larger but if the price is right it makes sense to go with something custom.

 

[jack.am]

Right, so a V Mount shouldn't heatsoak because the fans on the radiator will draw the heat away and under the car away from the intercooler.

A VMIC will still heatsoak, they all will, it's not the hot ambient air that heats them up it's the even hotter air exiting the turbo. Once you start to slow down to a stop there is no airflow over the intercooler to remove this heat and it starts to build up. I personally wouldn't worry too much about heatsoak in traffic, if your IC is ducted properly the inlet temps will soon drop as you move off.

 

[cib24]

A VMIC will still heatsoak, they all will, it's not the hot ambient air that heats them up it's the even hotter air exiting the turbo. Once you start to slow down to a stop there is no airflow over the intercooler to remove this heat and it starts to build up. I personally wouldn't worry too much about heatsoak in traffic, if your IC is ducted properly the inlet temps will soon drop as you move off.

Yes, and that is fine for me, it's just about the temps dropping quicker than they do now for me and also starting from a lower base. My temps are always 30-45 degrees on the move in this weather but it sounds like V Mount people are only a couple degrees above ambient on the roll.

 

[jdmr_neil]

From experience vmount and front mount there is nothing to separate their cooling performance. Its just a case of how you want to go aesthetically.

 

[MightyCondor]

From experience vmount and front mount there is nothing to separate their cooling performance. Its just a case of how you want to go aesthetically.

Provided both have been done well I guess. I'm not happy with my front mount, but it's not properly ducted. It heat soaks badly and water temps especially have been an issue on track or at altitude.

 

[jdmr_neil]

Really? My fmic isn't particularly well ducted but doesn't really heatsoak much tbh. I guess the position being so low down and further from the main source of heat helps. Again I'm seeing sub 20 degree aits cruising and even just idling at standstill will get to mid 30s at most. With the water on boost i can quickly get it to sub ambient temps.

Water temps are always fine also and max i saw was 104 on twins on a 30 degree day hammering it on track. On the single i haven't seen over 94.

 

[MightyCondor]

Really? My fmic isn't particularly well ducted but doesn't really heatsoak much tbh. I guess the position being so low down and further from the main source of heat helps. Again I'm seeing sub 20 degree aits cruising and even just idling at standstill will get to mid 30s at most. With the water on boost i can quickly get it to sub ambient temps.

Water temps are always fine also and max i saw was 104 on twins on a 30 degree day hammering it on track. On the single i haven't seen over 94.

Yeah mine is further back and in the bay. Too easy for air to completely bypass it I guess. Air temps probably 10-15 above yours. Coolant is low 80s under cruising but gets well over 100 with sustained load. I'd be happy if I had your numbers

 

[jeffohlen_90]

From my own experience if you want to maintain the parameters you want whilst changing to a V mount then spend it on an overall package such as the Knight Sports V Mount kit. You retain the A/C, stock battery location and the only thing that must change is the intake and you have various options to customise those. Get their air groove intake which I retrofitted to my Radtec V mount with a 50mm thick intercooler core and the AITs are generally between 10 - 15 degrees above ambient once you get moving. As has been mentioned, heatsoak in slow moving or stop traffic is inevitable but you can mitigate that soon after you get moving if you can manage to squeeze a ram air intake through the front bumper opening.

Same principle will generally apply to water temps on V mounted radiators as well, as with heavy traffic water temps tend to hover in the high 80s until you build up speed and air flow again. A custom under tray is recommended so the radiator fans can dissipate heat most effectively. My LRB Speed tray drops my water temps down to the 70s on sustained runs of over 50 mph, and have seen a chilly 68C just cruising down the M3 Eastbound. The hopelessly inaccurate stock water gauge curiously starts pointing downwards from half way in those moments

 

[Satoshi-FD3]

Roy,

Have you run back to back tests on the dyno with the reflective hood insulator removed? It's possible that could be attributing to your heatsoak issues ?

Also rather than going down the route you are considering, have you given any thought to ceramic coating your dump pipe and associated exhaust components (Turbine housings, manifold, etc)? It might be worth doing another track day with a temp sensor in the engine bay to monitor under hood temps per session. It will be dramatically different to a dyno run.

View attachment 8905

 

[cib24]

Roy,

Have you run back to back tests on the dyno with the reflective hood insulator removed? It's possible that could be attributing to your heatsoak issues ?

Also rather than going down the route you are considering, have you given any thought to ceramic coating your dump pipe and associated exhaust components (Turbine housings, manifold, etc)? It might be worth doing another track day with a temp sensor in the engine bay to monitor under hood temps per session. It will be dramatically different to a dyno run.

No, I haven't thought about removing the Dynamat hood inshood insulator. I put that on because I couldn't find an OEM piece and I also was worried about the heat from the engine eventually destroying the paint finish on the bonnet. Do you think I am cooking my components inside and my worries about the paint are unfounded?

I also didn't ceramic coat the twins or donwpipe. The heat on my intercooler must be due to the stock location radiator placement. The fans basically blow hot air from the radiator onto the intercooler.

I was watching my temps on the drive home and doing a few pulls. Air temps drop initially but as the RPMs rise and the secondary comes on the temps start to rise toward the redline. They stabilised on the motorway but I can see how tricky it is for the intercooler to cool down given its location and the fact that it is powder coated which traps heat like a ceramic coating does.

So, maybe I shot myself in the foot with a combo of hood insulation, no ceramic coating on the twins or downpipe, and powder coating the intercooler for a OEM look, but fundamentally the location of the intercooler right behind the radiator is not ideal.

 

[Satoshi-FD3]

No, I haven't thought about removing the Dynamat hood inshood insulator. I put that on because I couldn't find an OEM piece and I also was worried about the heat from the engine eventually destroying the paint finish on the bonnet. Do you think I am cooking my components inside and my worries about the paint are unfounded?

I also didn't ceramic coat the twins or donwpipe. The heat on my intercooler must be due to the stock location radiator placement. The fans basically blow hot air from the radiator onto the intercooler.

I was watching my temps on the drive home and doing a few pulls. Air temps drop initially but as the RPMs rise and the secondary comes on the temps start to rise toward the redline. They stabilised on the motorway but I can see how tricky it is for the intercooler to cool down given its location and the fact that it is powder coated which traps heat like a ceramic coating does.

So, maybe I shot myself in the foot with a combo of hood insulation, no ceramic coating on the twins or downpipe, and powder coating the intercooler for a OEM look, but fundamentally the location of the intercooler right behind the radiator is not ideal.

For an engine bay that naturally suffers with heat soak from the factory, I can not see a reflective foil based liner helping temps that much. Are you running a stock radiator? the 99 spec series 8 cars run a slightly modified radiator angle to help with cooling from additional heat due to raised power output. A new replacement alloy radiator should help with the coolant temps.

Bay temps can only be reduced by maximising dissipation through venting and/or the addition of say ceramic coatings on waste gas peripherals, as you have said a vented bonnet is not an option so alternative solutions should be considered. There is no point in changing to V-Mount with the loss of A/C to reduce bay temps on a predominately street focused car.

Look at replacement radiators, newer fans (fan design and efficiency has changed greatly since Mazda built these cars) look at switchable fan modifications that allow you to run them full speed when temps get to a certain point (temp sensor) or manual switch. On series 8 (99+) cars the fans are already set to come on earlier, but at low speed. You can modify them further to run full speed as per my suggestion above. SPAL PWM fans and controller could be used, and if you have the space you could run 4 in push/pull configuration but that is excessive IMO.

Have a read of this it may help:

http://www.fd3s.net/fan_mod.html

 

[cib24]

Thanks. My car is a 99 RS and I did have the improved factory radiator but have long since upgraded to a 48mm Koyo N Flow in the stock location, and fans set to come in earlier in my Apexi so that I always have an operating temp between 85-90 degrees.

Coolant temps have never ever been a problem even in stop and go traffic or on track. It is only air temps where I have an issue. Oil temps are also always golden.