Intercooler Upgrade

[cib24]

Following the FD:OC Dyno day and watching my air temps rise from 49 to over 65 degrees during a 4th gear pull despite running a bit of water pissed me off. In addition, I have had some serious heatsoak issues this year on the street. On the track it is much less of an issue because you are moving all the time but I only do a couple track days each year and otherwise would like to have full power available when I want it on the road.

Next year I want to change things up a bit so I am rebuilding my 99s and will increase the water injection from 250cc/min to 500cc/min for a better cooling effect. I may even consider a fuel upgrade to run more boost if I get the cooling sorted out.

I am now considering my options to change my intercooler. The caveat is that I have zero desire to move my battery, lose my A/C or buy a vented bonnet.

A V Mount constructed like the below photo (but a bit smaller) seems sensible initially, but without a vented bonnet I fear the intercooler core would just hestsoak the same way a SMIC does when in traffic or on the Dyno.

I have looked at a couple of front mount solutions and the Blitz seems to not require modification to the bumper but the battery needs to be moved and you might also need to move the radiator which I don't want to do if going front mount.

The other solution I am thinking of is installing a larger water tank in the boot and considering pre-intercooler and post-intercooer water injection, with a 500cc/min nozzle before the intercooler and 250cc/min nozzle after. Not sure if this would really work as it wouldn't necessarily solve the intercooler heatsoaking but the charge air would be pre-cooled before going in. Of course, there are also potential issues with pre-intercooler water injection such as water collecting in the intercooler.

So, what could be the right option for me?

 

[jdmr_neil]

The bottom pic is the blitz one i have Roy. It keeps the oem battery location but I'm 90% sure a/c usually has to go. That said I'm 99% sure a clever guy could fathom a way of keeping a functioning a/c with this fmic

 

[Ceylon]

What is your ducting like Roy? For what you want, a larger smic is probably still best I'd think unless you change your mind about the battery relocation. You could always fit a small fan for times of low air flow like in traffic to reduce heatsoak. Would you not rather go pre turbo for the AI rather than pre intercooler?

 

[Ceylon]

The bottom pic is the blitz one i have Roy. It keeps the oem battery location but I'm 90% sure a/c usually has to go. That said I'm 99% sure a clever guy could fathom a way of keeping a functioning a/c with this fmic

The Blitz fmic comes with brackets and pipes to get the AC working if bought new, so it's doable .

 

[rob fd]

I know the weather is obviously cooler now but since I fitted a decent v mount setup I can boost hard repeatedly and not see over 25c intake temps. The triumph sensor had made a huge difference aswell the temps change at a realistic speed. Half the time I bet the stock sensor is telling the ecu the charge is far warmer than it actually is. On the stock IC and sensor I was seeing sometime 50/60c intake temps even while moving and it would take an eternity to drop back down even off boost.

 

[MILLION]

I know the weather is obviously cooler now but since I fitted a decent v mount setup I can boost hard repeatedly and not see over 25c intake temps. The triumph sensor had made a huge difference aswell the temps change at a realistic speed. Half the time I bet the stock sensor is telling the ecu the charge is far warmer than it actually is. On the stock IC and sensor I was seeing sometime 50/60c intake temps even while moving and it would take an eternity to drop back down even off boost.

Hey, can you tell us more about this triumph sensor please?

 

[Myocardial Infarction]

T1290510 from local Triumph dealer, should be under £30

And would need a Bosch ev1 connector if memory serves

 

[MILLION]

T1290510 from local Triumph dealer, should be under £30

And would need a Bosch ev1 connector if memory serves

Sweet. So that's it. A strait swap for a more accurate reading?
Game on

 

[rob fd]

Be aware Triumph aint manufacturing anymore untill end of october as they are on back order. I phoned almost every dealer in country and nobody stocks them. I do however have 3 spare ones lol so i could probably sell you 1 if interested. Also @Myocardial Infarction is right they require a bosch style injector plug.

 

[JonFD]

http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_part_number_lookup?partdes=T1290510

Would this be it? If so I'll grab one, in a the same boat lol.

I've seen this mentioned on Rx7.com apparently there's 2 different types, one with an exposed element one not, anyone know about that?

 

[MILLION]

Be aware Triumph aint manufacturing anymore untill end of october as they are on back order. I phoned almost every dealer in country and nobody stocks them. I do however have 3 spare ones lol so i could probably sell you 1 if interested. Also @Myocardial Infarction is right they require a bosch style injector plug.

Well i'll take one off you if you really don't mind parting with it. Very kind to offer

 

[rob fd]

http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_part_number_lookup?partdes=T1290510

Would this be it? If so I'll grab one, in a the same boat lol.

I've seen this mentioned on Rx7.com apparently there's 2 different types, one with an exposed element one not, anyone know about that?

There is about 5 different part numbers lol. They have been superseded numerous tiimes, they all do the same thing.

 

[rob fd]

Well i'll take one off you if you really don't mind parting with it. Very kind to offer

No bother swing me a pm tomorrow and ill dig 1 out for you.

 

[JonFD]

There is about 5 different part numbers lol. They have been superseded numerous tiimes, they all do the same thing.

Coolio - On my apexi the IAT goes mad, it showed -20c then crept back up over like 7mins on the way to work lol.

 

[cib24]

What is your ducting like Roy? For what you want, a larger smic is probably still best I'd think unless you change your mind about the battery relocation. You could always fit a small fan for times of low air flow like in traffic to reduce heatsoak. Would you not rather go pre turbo for the AI rather than pre intercooler?

My intercooler ducting is the OEM duct modified to fit snugly onto the Greddy like a factory fit. There really isn't room for a larger SMIC as the Greddy core is so thick you can basically put the AST behind it and then you have like an inch (maybe) to the pulleys.

Pre-turbo is tricky with twins and also potentially problematic as if you don't have a really fine mist you can damage the blades. It's not recommended by most companies that sell water injection to install it this way unless it's a drag car and you don't mind rebuilding turbos.

 

[cib24]

I know the weather is obviously cooler now but since I fitted a decent v mount setup I can boost hard repeatedly and not see over 25c intake temps. The triumph sensor had made a huge difference aswell the temps change at a realistic speed. Half the time I bet the stock sensor is telling the ecu the charge is far warmer than it actually is. On the stock IC and sensor I was seeing sometime 50/60c intake temps even while moving and it would take an eternity to drop back down even off boost.

I have the triumph sensor installed and you can see the AITs on the commander reacting and updating quite quickly.

When on track with water I usually average 30-45 degree air temps with the water. I'm injecting way less than everyone else though. Neil used to run 500cc/min when he had his twins and I am half that so need to increase it.

 

[Ceylon]

My intercooler ducting is the OEM duct modified to fit snugly onto the Greddy like a factory fit. There really isn't room for a larger SMIC as the Greddy core is so thick you can basically put the AST behind it and then you have like an inch (maybe) to the pulleys.

Pre-turbo is tricky with twins and also potentially problematic as if you don't have a really fine mist you can damage the blades. It's not recommended by most companies that sell water injection to install it this way unless it's a drag car and you don't mind rebuilding turbos.
View attachment 8905View attachment 8906View attachment 8907

I was thinking a wider smic with a different intake and smaller battery. Along the lines of a Petit cool charge type system. Would do what you want without having to touch the radiator, undertray, AC etc.

I know there are considerations with pre turbo and a proper staged set up on twins will be more complex, but it also has huge benefits over post turbo. I haven't seen much evidence that it does really damage the impellers. Ideally, you'd want a narrow cone type pattern aimed directly at the compressor for good atomisation, then the secondary staged to come in at transition either from the rear y-pipe secondary boost pipe to a pressure switch or use the signal wire for the TC solenoid.

This has got me thinking now, I'm tempted to try this .

 

[jack.am]

I can't see any benefit in putting WI between the turbos and intercooler, it also only really makes sense to go pre-turbo if you're looking to push more efficiency and boost out of your twins.

I think the main drawback with the SMIC is that there is not space behind the IC for hot air to flow, which will obviously hurt intake temps as the average temperature of the core rises. There seems to be a negligible difference between FMIC and VMIC on numbers, so it's just a packaging thing. Most FMICs need something cut up, whether that's the bumper or some of the front end, as well as the battery being shifted around.

 

[cib24]

I was thinking a wider smic with a smaller battery and differnt intake.


I was thinking a wider smic with a different intake and smaller battery. Along the lines of a Petit cool charge type system. Would do what you want without having to touch the radiator, undertray, AC etc.

I know there are considerations with pre turbo and a proper staged set up on twins will be more complex, but it also has huge benefits over post turbo. I haven't seen much evidence that it does really damage the impellers. Ideally, you'd want a narrow cone type pattern aimed directly at the compressor for good atomisation, then the secondary staged to come in at transition either from the rear y-pipe secondary boost pipe to a pressure switch or use the signal wire for the TC solenoid.

This has got me thinking now, I'm tempted to try this .

Yes, I thought of this but it sounds annoying to setup, wire and programme.

 

[cib24]

I can't see any benefit in putting WI between the turbos and intercooler, it also only really makes sense to go pre-turbo if you're looking to push more efficiency and boost out of your twins.

I think the main drawback with the SMIC is that there is not space behind the IC for hot air to flow, which will obviously hurt intake temps as the average temperature of the core rises. There seems to be a negligible difference between FMIC and VMIC on numbers, so it's just a packaging thing. Most FMICs need something cut up, whether that's the bumper or some of the front end, as well as the battery being shifted around.

Yes, on the V Mount aspect I simply wonder if the intercooler will work well if you don't have a vented bonnet for the air to escape.